“If you’re drowning, you make a lousy lifeguard.” -Seth Godin

-Do you struggle turning down requests for your time?

-Overburdened by the desire to do right by others?

-Feel like you’re the rock for everyone in your life, but hardly anyone ever takes care of you in return?

Whether it’s a friend asking for help moving, a colleague asking for assistance on a project, or a stranger in your industry asking to “pick your brain,” favors can simultaneously feel like a blessing and a curse.

On one hand, it feels really good to help someone out.

But if you spend too much time helping others, there won’t be any energy left to take care of yourself.

Are you the boss of yourself?

Mastering Influence & Persuasion

There’s never been a better time to check out my podcast One New Person.

This week’s guest is the inimitable Zoe Chance, an Assistant Professor of Marketing at Yale School of Management and world renowned expert in influence & persuasion techniques. You probably know her better as the “I like your hat” lady.

Yes, Zoe is the lady I met on the plane all those years ago whose four words changed the course of my life forever.

We remain close friends, occasional colleagues, and frequent co-conspirators. But still, her time is in high demand, which is why I was so thrilled she was willing to carve out an hour to chat with me on record, for all our benefit.

Doing Good and Doing Well

“If you can’t say ‘no’, then not just somebody is the boss of you, but everybody is the boss of you.”

Sitting on her office couch at Yale we had a quiet, personal, and intimate conversation mostly about being the master of yourself. Zoe’s mission is to help kind, caring people do well for themselves while also doing good in the world.

We discussed at length the power of ‘no’: How to say ‘no,’ why to say ‘no,’ and why saying ‘no’ may be the most generous thing you can do.

Our conversation turned to the levers we use to influence one another, and why classic persuasion advice doesn’t work for ongoing, human relationships.

Zoe explains what we get wrong about the infamous pitch Steve Jobs made to John Sculley, when he convinced Sculley to leave Pepsi and become Apple’s CEO by asking, “Do you want to sell sugar water for the rest of your life, or come with me and change the world?”

When Steve Jobs did that to John Sculley, he poisoned Sculley’s job forever. [Jobs] got people to do great things, but at the cost of hating themselves. [That meeting] is presented as this inspirational pitch of “come with me and change the world,” but he was really twisting the knife in Sculley’s gut.

And after all these years of me telling the story of how I met her, we finally get Zoe’s side of the story on that fateful morning!

If you answered ‘yes’ to any of the questions at the top of this page, then this conversation may be the most impactful 45-minutes you ever spend. Find a quiet place, grab a pen and paper, get your favorite drink, put your headphones on, and enjoy.

Head here for show notes, related links, and additional resources.